Fall 2008 Online Certificate Students:
View all sessions below. Then log all your comments, questions, discussion question answers, criticisms, or thoughts below.
NOTE: This is not the place for general discussion and questions. Go to the foyer for general discussion and refer to the FAQ on the right for question. Time spent in the comments section will apply toward your one hour of community time per week. To download audio sessions, visit the course homepage on the TTP site. The next session will be posted each Wed.
_____________________________
How do Christians know what books belong in the Bible? Who determined what books were inspired? What about the Deuterocanonical books (Apocrypha)? Should they be included? Upon completion of this session the student should have a better understanding of process of the canonization of Scripture. During this session the different criteria that people have proposed for determining the canon will be examined. The student should struggle with the traditional understanding that the closed is canon. As well, the student will learn the Roman Catholic arguments put forth for the inclusion of the Old Testament Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books and the Protestant response. The student should leave trusting in God, understanding that He, ultimately, is in providential control of the canon of Scripture.
Do we have the right books? [17:20m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download What are the facts concerning the canon? [17:02m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download What are the five tests of canonicity? [8:53m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download Arguments for the inclusion of the Deuterocanonical/Apochryphal books [12:01m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download Arguments against the inclusion of the Deuterocanonical/Apochryphal books [17:35m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
Powered by FireStats
September 12th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Session 4, B&H, Fall, 2008
Marsha Johnson
1.)Possibly. I would need to know: does the Church consider it divinely inspired (God breathed), does the NT attest to its authority,is its existence & authorship confirmed in the writings of Church Fathers, do science & text critics confirm its authenticity,if the above confirm the letter does God affirm it over time?
2.)Yes, it is possible for God to add to the canon. The question for me is why would he add to scripture? I don’t think there is a present or future reason for him to give us new information. I believe the next communication will be in person at the end times when Christ comes again.
3.)I am “continue(ing) in what (I) have learned and …believe…from childhood” that is “salvation through faith in Christ Jesus’ which is “profitable for teaching, reproof, correction & for training in righteousness” and I have/am/will be “competent, equipped for every good work.” I have not found the Scriptures lacking in anything.
4.)Heb 1:1-2; Christ Jesus is the Word and he has been appointed by God to be heir of all things, and he created the world and in addition he has lived here on Earth. If he had anything else that we should know I believe he would have given that information to the Apostles while on Earth.5.)I would say “prove it.” All Christians everywhere & in all time (present and future) must agree. God’s voice must be heard in that “book.”now believe that these writings are worth my reading them. 6.)I am now reading them. I do not think they should be considered sacred canon. I trust the historical Protestant Church’s decision based on the information I have learned in this class and on the readings for this class. Am I willing to die for my answer? This seems like a Polemetic response, I don’t think I will have to die for my answer living here in Canada. However, if I was absolutely certain it was necessary, then I would! 7.)This class has caused me to take a closer look at the Apocrypha books and consider their value.
September 16th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Session 4, B&H, Fall 2008
1) No. I believe that if God wanted it in the Bible then it would have been found when they canonized the Bible. God is powerful and in control of His Word. Also, there are probably many letters by the Apostle Paul that we don’t have. We aren’t required to have them all. Just because Paul said it doesn’t make it the inspired Word of God.
2) Sure it’s possible. I don’t think that God will add to it. It’s viewed as “closed” because most people believe that God will not add to it.
3) The Bible is definitely used for instruction. It is our instructions for life, for following Christ, and for understanding God. The Bible points us to Christ and Christ points us to God. The Bible is a message of salvation and righteousness. That’s what God gave us. He equipped us for every good work.
4) God spoke through the prophets and forefathers. Then it says in these last days, God used His Son. It seems that there is not supposed to be anyone after Christ. God uses the Holy Spirit and the Scripture to speak to us. The NT is about Christ and His work on earth. The OT is the reports of the prophets recorded to show us God’s redeeming plan from the beginning. We don’t need anything after Christ. It all ends with Christ!
5) Kick them and beat them up!–Then ask questions.
The writers of the Bible were prophets and apostles. We know who is a prophet by their words and by their miracles. I would ask them what miracles have they performed recently, and I would ask them if their book has been recognized by the Body. I’d want to discuss the verse about the Scripture not being added to or taken away from. I’d also want to know what made that person so much better than many of the Greats that have come and gone before. I’d basically just have a whole lot of questions and a whole lot of doubt.
6) Interesting how the RC seemed to accept them. It was almost 1000 years after they were written when the RC officially accepted them. And then it was in response to Luther’s rejection. That’s not good enough for me. The early church didn’t accept them as Scripture either. Some referred to the writings, but that doesn’t make it Scripture. I’ve referred to Shakespeare, but I’m not trying to get his works included in the Bible. Most of the responses to the Apocrypha seem to be doubtful. I wouldn’t include them. I am not sure about dying for my stance. If it came to that, maybe I would, but I don’t think it should ever come to that.
7) I really enjoyed this lesson and I’m looking for a book about the Apocrypha. I want to read the Maccabees. Do you have any suggestions??
Trying to decide whether I’d die for something or not was most challenging. It’s making me think about other issues and whether I’d be willing to die for them.
September 23rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
1. For me this is the most challenging question posed in the session. If we were to find the “real 1 cor” I suppose we would have to subject it to the test of canon that was presented in this session. Through textual criticism, IF it could be determined that it really was paul who wrote it AND it was prophetic in nature AND the body as a whole recognized it AND it was recognized as “the voice of God”….then i suppose i would accept it. At the same time if we hold to the doctrine of the sufficiency of scripture then we already have everything we need and its inclusion would be non-essential.
2. I think its possible for God to do just about anything except Lie. I believe that the canon is closed for all intents and purposes because what we already have is sufficient for the redemption of man. We do not need any further revelation from God that what he has already given in the NT and OT. What more is there to be said than what God has already accomplished through Jesus at the cross?
3. Again the verse points to the idea that we have all we need in the scripture “for every good work” in this life. As alluded to in the question its not meant to be an exhaustive history (or science) book. It doesn’t contain everything, just everything we need.
4. Im not too sure here but Heb 1 speaks of the deity of Christ and how in the last days God revealed himself to man through Christ. Perhaps the assumption is now that He is at the right hand of the father he no longer speaks like he did as when he walked the Earth?…im not really sure. If this is the logic he will speak in a similar manner when he returns.
5. This is an excellent question, especially due to the fact THIS HAS HAPPENED….My family has Mormon ties and the “Prophet Joseph Smith” has claimed to have written works inspired scripture. Prior to this class my response was to simply brush it off, now I would like to give Joseph the Prophet test as described by Michael from the Word in Deut. 13. I know it sounds trivial and i have made it trivial in the past but the sad truth is that MILLIONS have followed so called prophets.
6. I honestly didn’t know much of the apocrypha prior to this lesson. It has challenged me to want to read them and glean from them what i can. I currently don’t think they deserve to be included in the inspired works of scripture. Im not willing to die for that.
7. This has challenged my view of the canon and even what it means to be an inspired scripture. So much of our theology rests on the accuracy and authority of scripture that I am challenged to learn more about the texts. I am also better equipped to determine discuss how a text meets the requirement to be included in our bible.